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miyamanga asked:

I've seen you describe Fate/Zero as "too nihilistic and cynical to be considered a complete body of work." I disagree overall but understand why some consider it to be excessively nihilistic, but I've never heard the criticism that this SPECIFIC Urobuchi work is cynical. (Some of his later works undeniably are.) Can you elaborate on that point? Lastly, what changes to Fate/Zero would make it a "complete body of work" in your eyes? Please answer my question in 140 characters or less.

shuttershocky answered:

When I say that I had a hard time considering Fate/Zero to be complete, I meant that if I were ever to recommend it to someone, I would advertise Zero and UBW as being a package deal, because I cannot accept Fate/Zero by itself simply due to how it all ends.

I believe in tragedies still having an uplifting message despite their gruesome ends. While the protagonists go through hell, the audience should still be left with something to go on, and I do not think Zero has one. 

You can argue that the message being conveyed is Kiritsugu’s folly, how his ideals were wrong when they led him down such an evil path, but I don’t think that alone was meant to be everything. The time between the Grail’s fire and the ending is so short, and while we do see Kiritsugu have a realization that he was wrong when he rejects the grail, his realization is rewarded by the great fire. What are we left with? Hundreds, maybe thousands, dead. Kiritsugu is never allowed to see Illya again despite having just lost Irisviel and Maiya. He dies of a broken heart after only 5 years, and passes on his wretched philosophy to Shirou without telling him of any of its dangers or where he went wrong, cursing him to a broken psyche.

You could say this is what makes it a proper tragedy, since Kiritsugu deserved all of this, and I would agree with you if Kiritsugu was the only one left standing, but he’s not. Kirei and Gilgamesh are alive and well, the two self-serving characters who not only lack humanity like Kiritsugu, but straight up enjoy the suffering of others. And unlike Kiritsugu, they get out practically scot-free (though Kirei does lack a heart).

What the hell is that all about? (Thematically I mean, obviously these two needed to be alive.) What does brutally killing off or harming every character with even a shred of integrity (sans Waver) while leaving Kirei and Gil alone tell the audience? That none of it matters? Kirei and Gil’s selfishness literally saves their lives, Angra Mainyu revives both from death in order to further inflict pain upon the world. Taking Zero as its own standalone work, seeing these two be rewarded and proven right IS cynical. Zero’s disbelief in human goodness is the literal definition of cynicism, IF it is viewed on its own. 

Connecting Zero with any three of the Stay Night routes however, turns Zero from a cynical work into one-half of a hopeful one. Zero asks about the worth of Kiritsugu’s idealism, showing how it failed spectacularly, and Stay Night’s three routes providing different answers.

So yes, I don’t think Zero is meant as a complete work (I mean, y’know, apart from the fact that it’s a prequel.) when it works so much better as an amazing prologue that actually ends up improving Stay Night from a thematic standpoint. 

Source: shuttershocky
mxkael-deactivated20170502

Hey, Tumblr! You want anime that…

okappas

Has Powerful Leading Ladies -

Has Main Characters With Dark Skin -

Has Androgynous Characters -

Has Trans characters that are NOT comic relief/fetishy -

Has Canon Queer Characters (not in specifically yaoi/yuri anime)-

Is Based off of Japanese stories/folklore/literature -

Has Girls Playing Sports -

Messes with your head -

Has White Haired Boys That Aren’t Komaeda/Kaworu/Akise/Clear -

Has Unique Art-

Is “For kids” but has a lot of depth -

Has Cute Girls Doing Cute Violent Things -

Is About Humans + Nature -

Is So Tragic It’ll Destroy Your Ass -

Source: okappas
dailylancelot
shitpostsaber shitpostsaber

everyone else is so well dressed in fate zero like even ryuunosuke literally spends his fucking money buying designer leopard print shit because he likes it and then theres kariya showin up to the got dam grail war wearin sweatpants and a hoodie covered in trash and bugs n not having showered in weeks

shitpostsaber shitpostsaber

he was so brave. and so full of worms

Source: supportsaber
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